Matt Considine (00:01.977)
Welcome to the Bag Drop, Untold Stories in Golf. I'm your host, Matt Considine, here with our cohost, the Professor. Professor, top of the morning to you.
The Professor (00:13.374)
Another lovely Friday Looking forward to this weekend So looking forward to this weekend. No, I just you know, how many times I've done this in pot now. I'm now at the age where like We we weekends are weekends, you know Yeah, that could be a whole segment in this pod for so long. I I would work weekends and that just the beauty of a professor job I can just work hours when I want to work on
Matt Considine (00:17.853)
Yeah, you got something cooking?
Matt Considine (00:25.105)
Now at the age, just give me a segment. at the age.
The Professor (00:38.594)
But as I've gotten a little older, now I'm starting to block off those weekends. They are, they are my time. And, know, if I do a little work, sure, maybe, but now like one Friday afternoon hits, it's time to just get out of the office and just be around friends, be around Claire, hang out. And that's something that might be the thing I value most in life at this point is just hanging out with friends and Claire over the weekend, regardless of it's sitting around or doing something.
Matt Considine (01:04.179)
You're a great hang. The professor's a great hang. Like you're good at it. So you should be enjoying what you're good at. But yeah, not enough us hang anymore, right? You gotta make time for that. My weekends are different. My weekends are different than yours probably, but I'm trying to make that transition as well where, I mean, and you're pretty work.
The Professor (01:22.904)
Very different
Matt Considine (01:31.089)
Obsessed workaholic. I certainly can be so I've learned that about myself. And so Yeah, I try to separate a little bit more if we don't have a new club event going on and I have to be you tied to it. I really try to Put those things away. But yeah be be present man with with people we want to be with that's that's It's harder to do in today's world, but it's important. it's september september 1st, I believe even this show is out
The Professor (01:32.62)
Yeah, too much.
The Professor (01:59.032)
Football season's here, baby.
Matt Considine (02:01.469)
Yeah, you football guys. Great for me, baby. It's fall golf. I friggin love it. All the week, the ones who like gave up and realized they're not any better at golf in July, therefore they don't want to play anymore. They're all getting off the tee sheet. They're packing it in. They're watching football. Sign me up. I play, I looked back, I play most of my golf in September and October. Most of my golf. It is the best time.
The Professor (02:06.284)
Mmm.
Matt Considine (02:30.803)
to play the game, especially in the Midwest. Gets a little firmer out there, a little less rain. Yeah, leaves will show up here soon, but dude, this is great. But also, if you're a fan of the professional game, what do we got at the end of this month?
The Professor (02:44.215)
Ooh, a Ryder cop.
Matt Considine (02:45.863)
Ryder Cup.
The Professor (02:48.334)
Kegan Bradley, inner out.
Matt Considine (02:50.929)
Yeah, I think we're going to know by the time this show releases, be honest with you. But you know, I actually had a fun thought. If this was a pod system like 2008, because everyone speculated you could go so many directions on these Captain's Picks. Actually, I kind of hope they did reveal the Captain's Picks by this release. I thought you could do the three pods, you know, so for those who don't know, Paul Aizinger, he revised the
Ryder Cup strategy, gave it a rebirth and they had an aggressive pod, a steady pod and a redneck pod. And the redneck pod was guys from Kentucky, Boo Weekly, whatever. But he called it that and it was just kind of character matching, personality matching. So for fun, I started to do that. if you had an aggressive pod, who would you put? then, and remember, Paul Isinger let them select.
their fourth player. So that was also a fun exercise. It's like, okay, if you get these three guys together in a pod and they had to select their fourth, who would it be? But while you're thinking about that professor, because I can see your wheels turning.
The Professor (04:02.718)
Yeah, I'm like, I'm not prepared for this. Like who? Yeah.
Matt Considine (04:05.629)
And we won't spend time here. This is, but, an aggressive pod in my eyes was Bryson DeChambeau, JT Keegan Bradley. I think he is going to be on the team, frankly. And it's hard at this point to argue unless he really played terrible through the playoffs. And we weren't aware of that. and, and I think that you could put like a cam young on that squad, a little more variance out of a guy. And then you got your steady.
The Professor (04:31.33)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (04:35.167)
that's Scottie Scheffler, Russell Henley, Harris English, Ben Griffin. They would select Ben Griffin. That's the way I thought those top three. then here's, there's no Rednecks anymore, unfortunately for the game of golf in 2025. There's no Boo Weeklies per se, but I renamed the Redneck pod the California pod. And that is JJ Spahn, Xander Schauffele, Colin Morkawa, and they would select.
The Professor (04:44.044)
Okay, okay.
The Professor (04:54.24)
Yeah.
The Professor (04:59.502)
change.
Matt Considine (05:04.638)
Patrick Cantley to be on their their team. So there you go. I think I want to say I can't wait to see if I'm right I feel like that's it that the team
The Professor (05:06.026)
Okay. Look at you.
The Professor (05:11.682)
That's I like that structure. like that. Yeah, I'm good with it
Matt Considine (05:15.155)
I want to add one other Ryder Cup question that I haven't heard weeks of people speculating. You're coming to, you're the Euro team. know it's going to be predominantly the same guys at the end of the month, right? That were in Rome competing at Bethpage, but it's so hard to win on the road and it's so hard to win at Bethpage. There's this like open 12th question mark potentially with one of the
The Professor (05:38.318)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (05:42.643)
Hogard twins maybe or Wallace or Harry Hall or something, but why is no one bringing up the most point winner of all time and Ryder cups, Sergio Garcia.
The Professor (05:56.9)
I think, ooh, that's a good question. He's been playing decent golf, I think, right?
Matt Considine (06:02.217)
Decent, nothing great, what does that matter when you get to a Ryder Cup dude? Why would you not throw him in the mix to like, you know who he pairs well with already on those teams. He basically mentored most of them in Ryder Cups. And then, I feel like at an away game, he's got just that FU edge that would put, I don't know, I don't know. Anyways, I had to get that off my chest. I haven't heard anybody.
The Professor (06:05.23)
How far do we go?
The Professor (06:28.577)
Matt Considine (06:30.727)
reference him, but I think it would make sense.
The Professor (06:32.808)
I'm, I'm, I'm going down the, I haven't been on the live golf page in forever. Sergio is ranked. He's, he's ranked 138th in the writer cup rankings, but that's probably cause the live. So I'm the lift stuff. He's a precocious talent full of fire and charisma. The enduring impression left by this force of nature was of a youngster with the golfing world at his feet. I mean, this description is hilarious. I'm just looking at his, his live finishes. got a.
Matt Considine (06:38.143)
You just got cookie'd by...
The Professor (07:01.806)
Going back starting February, tied for six, tied for 18th. He won Hong Kong, tied for 32nd, third in Miami, 50th in Mexico City, tied for second, 42nd Korea, tied for 38th, tied for 25, tied for 10, tied for 21st, tied for 17th. I get what you're saying. But I think form has to matter some.
Matt Considine (07:16.681)
Yeah, so not great, not great. I don't care though. I truly...
Matt Considine (07:26.429)
Yeah, yeah, it does. It does. I thought his form would be slightly better. Now I have my answer at least. Thank you for the data, Professor. Now I know why they're not.
The Professor (07:33.038)
I actually, I was on your side when we started it. Cause I was like, I think he's been playing. right. And then looking back, I'm like, no, we can't. like we, if he'd been like top five and all the live events, we, we, I could entertain it, but I think we have to.
Matt Considine (07:38.599)
No, he's not. Okay.
Matt Considine (07:43.005)
Yeah, well.
It's just it's it's it's a different cauldron. That's why we tune in. I can't wait. I got a I Got I'll do my my new club minute here a new club locally our national members in Ohio have challenged the state club to a match upcoming on October 3rd They challenged us actually. Let's be clear. They challenged us and And so I'm together a little team myself. So I'm in big match play
The Professor (07:51.086)
You're right about that. Different cauldron. Yeah.
Matt Considine (08:13.959)
mentality right now, thinking about chemistry, thinking about pairings, might even fly you in professor. We might see what you're up to. and, taking on, taking on a local, local crew here in Northeast Ohio, but, so much else happened in new club check check out, the founders cup has just started to fill up and we're headed to Pinehurst this fall. So if you like match play, there's nothing better than the founders. It sincerely is. It's our oldest competition. It's the one we started with.
The Professor (08:42.702)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (08:43.487)
And it is still, um, from a competitive standpoint, now I feel like a, a player, a tour player playing politics, but from a competitive standpoint, it's my favorite competition we put on the books. I love the founders cup, uh, as, as my favorite competitive fixture, but, um, you got a fact for us this week.
The Professor (09:04.468)
I do a timely one relative to our topic of our pod day. Farmland. So here's a statistics for you. Since 1980, 30 million acres of farmland has been abandoned. Why is that critical to today's pod? That's potential grassland. about 50 % of that. Yeah. Farmland just no longer used for farming 30 million acres, about 50 % of that's transitioned to just grassland and pasture.
Matt Considine (09:23.259)
Abandoned? So farmer...
Matt Considine (09:28.073)
Hmm.
The Professor (09:33.199)
Some shrubland, about fifth of that's shrubland and forest. You some wetlands, obviously we're not building anything on that. Non-vegetated lands, not building anything on that. So pretty much, know, that's about, ends up being about 70 % of that is golfable land. Yeah, and if you could use all 30 million acres and we're building, let's say 100 acre golf courses, that's the size of Wanamoyse.
Matt Considine (09:49.399)
Interesting. Yeah, that's a good one for this episode.
The Professor (10:00.265)
so you can get 18 hole ballpark. could go smaller, but let's say a hundred acres. That would be 300,000 golf courses, of available land there. So, you know, a lot, a lot of land, a lot of land out there to if, if you build it, they will come.
Matt Considine (10:07.199)
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The Professor (11:10.146)
Mmm.
Matt Considine (11:36.415)
Alright, so it's a shorter one today, but it's one that... What are we excited about? Right? Places and things in the game that get us going. So why don't you get us going?
The Professor (11:48.131)
Well, I'm going to start with a place that's somewhat near. So a lot of my place I'm going focus on today is public, more public oriented. And then I hope we get into like, can these places teach us about moving forward? I'm going to start with a place that's no longer a golf course, Green Valley golf course in New Philadelphia, Ohio.
Matt Considine (12:10.527)
this is the place I discovered via Google Earth that I had no idea you were quite intimate with as a child.
The Professor (12:23.214)
So as a child, this was the golf course. I mean, we played our high school matches on, grew up on. This is where I initially learned the game watching dad's league. And I thought it was the most ridiculous golf course in the world, like built on a side of a hill. You just take a train ride up one of the slopes just to get from like the second green to the third hole. You know, but I've been ever since I've gotten back in the golf. So 2014, 15, 16 kind of ran that run.
I swear this place jumps on my mind and gets me excited on a weekly basis. Just like pops into my head and think like, I was an idiot as a kid. Like this was, this was the, like this was the place we need in golf and we need more of and like it needed some TLC, no doubt, you know, a little bit, a little bit of more focus on the agronomy and like the way it played and everything.
Man, just, every time I think about it.
Matt Considine (13:21.225)
Was it pretty shaggy and scruffy as a kid?
The Professor (13:24.622)
pretty shaggy, pretty scruffy. Yeah, there was no like, well, we can get it firm and fast or bouncy or anything like that. It was just, the concern was never on how the golf course played in the presentation of the golf course. you know, but it was just like every week now I think of that and that gets me excited about it. Even though I can't play it anymore, even though it's a closed shuttered golf course, like it just, it's like winning the lottery, right? Like
Why do people put a lottery? And we have research that shows just the thought of winning the lottery is a positive aspect of their life. gives them hope. It gets them excited. Me just thinking about this place and if it was still open and then had just a little TLC and taking a little bit of the roughness around the edges and getting the golf course to a certain, certain quality and playability.
keeps me up at night sometimes. I mean, I there, I was on Google Earth this morning, just like tilting it and looking at the contours and the topography and just like, holy cow, this is an amazing golf course and would shine and be something people that have played it would talk about to other people. It would be notable and would register. So yeah, that has a fake place, you know, maybe I'm gonna bring it back in virtual golf and on the NFT stuff if maybe that's where we need to go.
Matt Considine (14:19.622)
You
Matt Considine (14:43.081)
Well, and yeah, well, hey, you got to start somewhere. Digital is fine. but it also brings up your, how you started us with the 30 million acres that are out there. So that wasn't formally farmland. It was, we're not even talking about the abandoned golf courses in your 30 million acres. And, and I know you and I have kicked this around in the past, thinking about other things we can geek out on and research, but.
If golf in America is going to, live up to its, its origins or the, the UK, Scotland, Ireland vibes and their links courses are on the ocean, but they're also rural, right? They're not around population centers. And so maybe the place for us to look for more of this type of golf is the farmland and is out there. So green Valley, not to,
Are you a farm boy? I don't know. Are you a farm kid? What would you call yourself?
The Professor (15:44.254)
I am most certainly not, but I grew up in a primarily rural and definitely a lot of farming individuals that I grew up with.
Matt Considine (15:50.845)
It's a rural.
Matt Considine (15:55.667)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's the, societal structure of that kind of allows for that culture to exist, right? Even if you wanted to have an exclusive private club, you couldn't, charge dues enough to, you would still have access for, for other folks. And so I don't know, maybe, maybe that is the answer is that the green Valley's just need another shot. Now that golf is up to 40 million plus players and doing a lot better than it was in the.
The Professor (16:11.971)
That's right.
Matt Considine (16:25.006)
whenever that place shuttered.
The Professor (16:26.774)
Yeah. And you brought up Lynx Golf. So I've been thinking about this a lot recently. Lynx Golf is unique and it makes the game play like the playability of the game, the style of the game. I'll go on record and say this. think a lot of Lynx courses, if we just analyze them from an architectural standpoint, like we could identify pretty bad Lynx courses, but we don't think of them that way when we play them because of the playability. There's a uniqueness to it.
That makes it enjoyable fun, the quirkiness, we allow it and so on. So it gets away with it because of these things. So when we think about how could we replicate this and in American golf, in terms of the compelling golf aspect, we can't do links. That's just not a possibility. We don't have a lot of links land to use in the United States. But there's not, it's, it's gobbled up.
Matt Considine (17:19.177)
There's more than you think, but it's pretty gobbled up. It's not going to be.
The Professor (17:24.94)
the turf conditions aren't the same a lot of it, Just there's issues that won't happen.
Matt Considine (17:29.471)
There's not as many Bandons out there that are affordable.
The Professor (17:33.057)
Yeah, the entire coast of Scotland is one length land. So we just don't have that spread of land in the way the country has come along and that's been filled up by housing and so on and also protected areas. So how can we replicate it? Well, find that inland land that's top of the topography is interesting. It's compelling. Let the land
Matt Considine (17:35.999)
Yeah, exactly.
The Professor (18:00.767)
make it be interesting golf. So it might be sticky. might not be firm, but Hey, there's going to be incredibly cool contours that just engage you. And maybe it is firm, maybe not, but the dynamic of the golf course will make it something memorable that you walk off and the person's like, wow, that was compelling. That was interesting. That was fun. I wanted to do again. You know, I think of the, the fields club, you know, champion hill.
Aiken golf club, green valley, these places that there's something about the property itself that you walk off and it sticks with you. You walk away with it thinking that was really, really interesting and neat. And I want to play it again. So, Hey, all this 30 million acres of farmland. Maybe there's some cool turf out there.
Matt Considine (18:47.081)
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Considine (18:53.375)
There's some cool stuff out there is what you're saying. Even if it isn't sand based links, which does throw off the cost structure and the pricing structure for maintenance purposes. If you're going to maintain a certain quality, but, that's come a long way as well. And so maybe there's some folks smarter than us that should give that more of a shot.
The Professor (18:58.414)
That's right.
The Professor (19:13.858)
Yeah, we look forward.
Yeah. Now you bring this up. want to also do a me a Copa from, previous episode. And this is not email spurred on just based on what you just said in terms of maintenance, shout out Rivermont. We did not mention them on the previous, podcast of golf clubs and places that are aspirational. And that's a big, miss on our part for several things. It's great membership, great golf course, whatever. But to your point, like that is a beacon of hope in terms of golf course inputs and how to maintain a golf course.
Matt Considine (19:31.487)
Mmm.
The Professor (19:45.731)
with minimal inputs at a very high playable level. So shout out Rivermont on that. So yeah, following that model on these places that yeah, it's going to take definitely a little bit more than a Lynx land would take in terms of maintenance, but we can still strive to keep pushing forward with minimal inputs and getting better and better at that. And we have to accept as American golfers, it's not going to be the best condition places. It's going to be rough around the edges. And guess what? We do that with Lynx courses.
when we get into scruffy spots or the greens are a little slower, when we're playing a Lynx course, people don't walk off complaining. It's just, you shrug and you're like, that is what it is. When I get in a bunker and I have a terrible lie and I have to hack out sideways because of the conditioning of the bunker, you just laugh and that's how it is. And we need to accept that. I think if we did that and just built, look off on compelling land, we could go a long ways.
Matt Considine (20:40.681)
Yeah, I'll segue into mine someplace that has me excited. And I can't believe I'm saying this because I, but I take it for granted. And I think we take a lot of places for granted in the game of golf in our backyard. It becomes normal. Therefore we think mundane, but sometimes you just got to let things be and appreciate them for what they are. Where I'm going with this, you might chuckle the public.
The Professor (20:45.838)
I'm saying this.
Matt Considine (21:10.575)
Nine. Very close to my house, a place I play every Monday night in a old man, 35 year run in beer league. Firestones Public Nine used to be called Hackers where we would hit balls in college, the professor and I. And they had these wonderful potato pancakes. The juxtaposition now, professor of
The Professor (21:25.632)
Ugh, you can...
The Professor (21:30.004)
and eat potato pancakes all day.
Matt Considine (21:40.765)
what that little clubhouse where we used to hit balls is now a top golf. So you see a top golf right next to it. But then you have this semi ignored, definitely underappreciated, underutilized public nine hole golf course. It's short, it's on drastic land that was actually made walkable thanks to the architect. I think it was Art Hills. I haven't even looked it up. I play there every Monday night. I don't even know.
But, something, someone like that, cause it has all the containment mounting down every fairway. But the reason I bring this one up is, I play there every Monday night and the architecture nerd, depending on how I'm playing, if I'm playing well, you know, I'm into the match and I'm, focused on that. If, if, if I'm not, I'm usually thinking about architecture and what I would do differently for these different holes. And how would you reroute? I've rerouted this nine hole.
The Professor (22:13.816)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (22:38.815)
plot of land probably six or seven times and thinking, okay, how do you not have a part three on this Ridge? We got to have a part three on this Ridge. How would you get a part three on this Ridge? And I have a lot of fun doing that, but someone who knows that stuff even better than myself is a gentleman. talk about a lot on this podcast. Kent Mona's was playing as a sub in this old man league with me and Kent and I was doing that same deal with him and we're talking about it. And he goes, you know what? I wouldn't change a damn thing.
The Professor (22:56.632)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (23:08.863)
Like this place is cheap. It's inexpensive. Maybe some mo lines. Let's change some mo lines, but it is fun. have more interesting greens than the 54 private greens that are across the road at fireside country club. And, and I wouldn't change a damn thing. I'd leave it as be, there's a lot of fun stuff here. It's not going to beat you up. It's still challenging for guys like us. It's not long. You're going to make a lot of birdies if you're
The Professor (23:23.928)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (23:38.045)
You know, Ken out there, but it, it made me pause and I just loved how he phrased it where I had to say, you know what? Sometimes just being content is happiness. And I do like it the way it is. I'd be okay if it got a facelift and had some expanded greens, maybe in some stuff, but, the, the neglect of it is also charming and it also allows it to be accessible.
And sometimes, this is the last piece I'll say from an architectural standpoint, these guys that have been playing there for 40 plus years will nostalgically talk about when the greens were flat. Well, I don't know if it was the actual turf moving or they had too many beers back then and they don't remember correctly.
The Professor (24:21.317)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (24:31.767)
Or I actually, one of my theories is there's a couple drop-offs. mean, some of these greens, Kevin, have turned into, and I remember them as kid too. They definitely have changed. They turned into like pine-horse number two and they're just, you cannot hold a ball to certain pins and it's really fun that way. And they have short grass areas around those even better. But I think because like mowing and just over time, I'd have to get someone more intelligent than I on that topic to talk about it.
They have changed. so almost like that in neglect or the high school kid that's mowing the greens every week, like I feel like it's almost created this really interesting aspect, corkiness to some of these greens, is also fun.
The Professor (25:16.686)
Well, it's yeah, that's so many Donald Ross courses are in that way with the greens where the greens as we know them as he's like tilted back the front. Um, sort of mounded greens with follow-offs is actually due to the maintenance over time, not the original design. Uh, so that's always funny with the club. It's like, well, these screens have always been like this. Like, no, probably, probably not. But man, that's a throwback. That gives me a little PTSD. I don't remember a lot of that course because I've blocked out so much of it from that time period.
Of just the dark days. always, I remember having to play worst ball on that course a lot where you hit two balls on every shot and had to take the worst ball, uh, in the middle of winter when the other courses weren't open. yeah, it was, uh, there's something special to those. Like you said, the tendency is to take a place like that and think like, well, what could this be? But by enacting that, then you turn it into something you don't want it to be. Yes, it might be an awesome golf course on a cool piece of property.
Matt Considine (25:59.408)
Yeah, yeah.
The Professor (26:14.69)
But now the greens fees are $125 for nine holes. And we know the golfing population that then is going to be there the rest of that time.
Matt Considine (26:19.135)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (26:23.785)
Yeah. I think you've said it to me in the past and you can't take, places that are for everyone and make them for just the golf sickos. Like there's, there's very few golf sickos, golf degenerates out there that are going to be looking for, those places there. There's more and more now with information and people that get deeper into the game. But, but yeah, it's being a place that.
The Professor (26:33.494)
Yeah, yeah, it's like I mean I use examples like.
Matt Considine (26:51.835)
everyone can enjoy and afford is just fine. And if you can't, sorry, last point to this, if you can't go out and enjoy that, you got to reevaluate your relationship with the game of golf. You know, I, I, what taught me that was canal shores before. So that's my last, sorry, I cut you off and I jumped in my last course. I wanted to say I'm excited about I'm headed to Chicago coming up. I got some, you know,
The Professor (27:08.104)
Mmm, beautiful example.
No.
Matt Considine (27:21.257)
top golf courses in the area that I'm gonna be able to play during the stay, the place I'm most excited to get back to is Canal Shores. I can't wait. I can't wait to be there with Mark's dog, Walter. can't be there. If anyone who wants to come with me can come. It's not that I have to even sweat that, but I can't wait to play the updated course. What they built is awesome.
The Professor (27:31.586)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (27:47.551)
It does even the playing field for everybody. Anybody can play it, but it's really interesting to guys like you and I because of the way they did it. but it's just a place I want to be. So that's my last, excitement of where I want to head to.
The Professor (27:54.648)
Yeah.
The Professor (28:00.995)
Yeah, I'm very, I'm very proud to say since I started playing golf again, there has not been a trip to Chicago during golfing season that I have not played canal shores. Like that place is certainly a pillar of an example of a community course that other places should look to if you're trying to accomplish a community course, go there, learn what they've done, how they do it. And just again, hang out for hours and just watch the vibe, watch the staff, watch the people that come and go. And they've made that.
Matt Considine (28:29.523)
And how great is the game of golf that you started with a, you know, in the country, meadow farmland golf club, with some wild land. And, I ended with a course in the heart of Chicago that crosses six city streets and has two train lines that run over it and, and a canal like golf can be played anywhere, which is.
Should it be played anywhere is another question, but it can be played anywhere and creating places that are just fun for folks, that's where you wanna be, man.
The Professor (29:09.688)
Yeah. I'll give a, I already shout out the field. So we put that one aside. Great place. doing all the right things down the field. So I'll lump two together here that I wanted to really point out. kind of a similar thing going on. actually three, so you have Marion, not, Philadelphia Marion, but Massachusetts Marion. So this is an old nine hole a R I O N.
Matt Considine (29:34.303)
spelled M-A? yeah, not M-A.
The Professor (29:39.949)
And this is a George Thomas nine hole or, up there just, know, inside the Cape in terms of it's not part of the Cape, but a little bit inland. Jeremiah daily, will Fulton and will daily, I believe are the ones sort of running it doing, know, picked it up, bought it up a while, you know, several years ago. And it is just kind of, think maybe it was Andy Johnson said, this is, you want to see what American golf was, you know, a hundred years ago or whatever, this is a.
great place to go. Now they have Gill coming in to do some work down the road. but just a amazing place, just exactly what public, one of those places, public golf should be in terms of showcasing the course. but no frills, there's no infrastructure there. You know, just a house that they run a little pro shop out of and just the randos playing, you know, for 20 some dollars or whatever it is. so shout out that Hoover golf club, same sort of approach being done there.
classic golf course and then a good friend of
Matt Considine (30:40.361)
Sorry, what's the, I'm curious, sorry, derail you for a second. The ownership structure of those places, like, do you know, are they subsidized by anybody? Are they profitable? Like any, any.
The Professor (30:55.278)
I don't know. know at Marion, like the owners that bought it up, they had, they have decent money, but I know, knowing the details, I just know they bought it up as a passion project. So it wasn't like, we bought it for a ton of money and we're putting a ton of money into it. like, they grew up in that region. They knew about Marion. but I think that's motivation to get them on as guests. so I think that's a future.
Matt Considine (31:14.611)
Yeah, yeah, honestly, like I heard that story of Marianne and then you anywhere you've been. when I hear you get excited about places, I automatically start digging deeper, but let's try that. Let's try. I would love to talk to people that are running a place like that, bringing something back to life.
The Professor (31:34.689)
Yeah. And I think another one in that, that realm that hopefully we can get them on the pod to a good friend of mine, Sean Smith is the superintendent, and behind the scenes on a lot of things, but then Tom coins place up at Sullivan County golf club and, kind of what they're doing up there is another place I'm excited to watch kind of move along and turn along really cool piece of property. Sean is a golf, you know, just such a good golf mind and golf thinker.
Matt Considine (31:47.732)
Yeah.
The Professor (32:02.146)
So I'm really excited to watch that move forward as they push that project and reshape that golf course and turn it into something that'll probably be pretty special with a good ethos to it. So very excited to watch that evolve and hopefully we can get them on the pod to do some interviews as they build that out.
Matt Considine (32:19.759)
Tom's overdue. He's busy hosting his own pod too, but Tom we haven't had on in a little bit. So we definitely got to get him back and talk about Sullivan County and your guy. I think that'd be fun to have the pair. I think he should have a book coming out soon about it, but.
The Professor (32:35.574)
Yeah. Yeah. And then Sean, you might want to geek out on the, can geek out with turf on him and go, go down the rabbit hole.
Matt Considine (32:40.701)
Yeah, I like, I like pestering those guys with my questions. either quickly say that makes zero sense or they, they, they educate me on what actually, yeah, we do do that and here's how we achieve it. anything else?
The Professor (32:58.286)
I got a question for you. If you could take one course.
and you could grab it up and then do what you want with it.
What are you going with? And I want this to go with like a more sentimental answer.
Matt Considine (33:09.742)
Ugh... I-
Matt Considine (33:14.449)
Yeah. You want a more sentimental answer?
The Professor (33:18.03)
Cause I gave green Valley is my, that's definitely, mean, the topography is great and you could build a phenomenal golf course with the current routing pretty intact, but still very sentimental.
Matt Considine (33:25.811)
Yeah, I, I grew up on Langford and Monroe courses. So, man, I got a lot of answers to this question now that I think about it, but in Chicago, there's two courses that are both Langford and Monroe and both about an hour, from the city, pretty far, but not bad traffic pattern. Well, one has worse traffic patterns than the other, but, can't kick he elks.
The Professor (33:54.709)
brilliant.
Matt Considine (33:55.615)
You did play it. Yeah. We've hosted a lot of events there. Uh, always in good, a lot of green, a lot of greenery. Good. Good. Just such good turf though. So they're on, it's on a river bed. Um, and, and it's silt and sand down there. Um, so that, that would probably be up there with just the bones of a really good golf course and pushup greens from Langford and Moreau, a volcano par three, all these cool things. And then, uh, spring Valley golf.
The Professor (34:17.806)
Mm-hmm.
The Professor (34:23.352)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (34:24.435)
which is another Langford Monroe, different piece of land, but equally awesome. And, and so one of those two, and actually I know there's been people that have looked at both of those trying to do exactly what I am saying here. So, hopefully someday it does come to life, for one of those, then personally, I, and I gotta give a shout out for talking about things. I'm excited. I'm excited about municipal golf. I'm excited about forest preserve golf.
The Professor (34:51.618)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (34:54.927)
there's, there's a big wave I've seen since the COVID boom that these courses are doing well and they're getting some money. And, I live in Akron, Ohio and we have a Muni golf course. It's a hundred plus years old called good park. And even if, even if the sun is fully out, you might be walking in the dark most of the day. Cause there are so many trees.
The Professor (35:12.366)
I would choose that one too.
Matt Considine (35:23.097)
And it, it, it adds an interesting feel to it. difficulty, some would say, but if you could give me half the trees out of there and reroute a golf course, potentially, there's some really cool human sized scale. that's where I get excited about. Like if you said, okay, one place here's my sentiment sentimental answer. It's one of the best walking golf courses you'll ever play.
It reminds me a lot of St. Andrews and the fact that you get a lot of human scale and like elevation change, but you're never exhausted. You don't have to exert a bunch of energy to get to the top of a hill. I get done with 18 holes at Good Park, I'm like, let's go back to the first tee. And we're talking about a par 70, 6,800 golf course here. It's not like it's short. it's not, yeah, yeah. so yeah, that's my answer from a sentimental basis. I would love to see
The Professor (35:50.645)
Mm-hmm.
The Professor (36:00.611)
Good point.
The Professor (36:11.672)
It's not an easy course either. Not an easy course.
Matt Considine (36:20.283)
that municipal golf course and many others. George Wright, what happened there in Philly, there's so many good examples of munis when they do get the government support, the community support, that they just become such a great asset for the golf world, but also the broader community and just get people outside. So yeah, that's my cinema answer is Good Park Golf Course.
The Professor (36:24.686)
Mm-hmm.
The Professor (36:43.822)
Yeah. Shout out national link trust, by the way. Um, we haven't mentioned them in the last two episodes, just everything they're doing. That's a, group to look at, but yeah, I'm with you. Uh, I think if I hit the lottery, I'd walk over to you tomorrow and be like, we're going to take good park in green Valley. We're going to build them in the sister courses that are, you know, join up together, like in some partnership. Cause I think the.
Matt Considine (36:46.228)
There you go.
Matt Considine (37:01.471)
You too.
Matt Considine (37:09.609)
So look out Ohio, we're coming. Give me somewhere in Georgia. Give me somewhere in Georgia that you, if you could, same deal, be gifted that land, do whatever you want.
The Professor (37:13.038)
out
The Professor (37:19.156)
Yeah, like an existing golf course. That's, that's hard. I mean, I would say just from a strict existing golf course, there's this place he's called Deer Park. It would be fun to take, but I don't think I'm thinking of the potential and just completely selfishly the University of Georgia golf course. The topography is just amazing.
Matt Considine (37:39.839)
Mmm. Yeah.
Baby Augusta, right?
The Professor (37:45.423)
Yeah, the topography is amazing. You're sitting here on the edge of campus in a beautiful city. And if you could do something super awesome with that grounds and make it, you know, public oriented, uh, in just a hub for this college town, you know, different things, a good restaurant, good, you know, music scene, like just embrace everything that, you know, I'm not, I'm anti-infrastructure typically, but this is embracing the town. I want it be the vibe of the town. Right. So this
you know, small but delicious restaurant that's affordable. Plus like a little music venue, we're going to take advantage of the music scene. Some way to showcase maybe the work going on university, maybe get the art school involved somehow. And they're doing like the design of the place and the presentation of golf art inside of it. And I think you could do something really, really cool there. That would just take an amazing, awesome city and just ratchet it up a little bit through golf and using golf as a vehicle to do that, which
would be a fun venture and playground to run around.
Matt Considine (38:49.395)
That's a fun way to end it. Cause I think 10 years ago, those ideas, these places, it wasn't, there was no path. It was just one direction and you just kind of had to keep them going status quo. But these public private partnerships now, what Augusta is doing with the patch, what happened at the park, you mentioned National Links Trust, the forest preserves the
the knowledge that municipalities are getting around what golf can provide. I'm seeing the shift. And so it's not just a pipe dream for some of these places. I think it could happen, but it's also okay to let places be. If they're busy and members are enjoying themselves.
The Professor (39:28.802)
Mm-hmm.
The Professor (39:41.122)
That's right. If they're busy and they're put them keep trucking along.
Matt Considine (39:43.891)
Yeah, these are fun things to dream about, there are, yeah, there are places. I don't know if UGA is one of those places or not, but there are these places that you should be able to enjoy in their current form or else, again, reevaluate your love of the game of golf.
The Professor (40:00.002)
Yeah, well said.
Matt Considine (40:02.111)
Professor, that was a fun one, man. I'm excited to go let it fly here this weekend. Thanks to everybody for listening to the show. can't do this silly podcast and conversations without you. We know you love the game of golf and we love people that love the game of golf. So thank you for supporting us. If you're enjoying the show, subscribe, like, review or whatever button is sitting there in your podcast feed and we'll look forward to seeing you guys on the next one.
Thanks to our friends at Titleist, the Pro V1 and Pro V1X. Make sure you get fit for your ball. Go to Titleist.com and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Professor.
