Matt Considine (00:03.016)
Welcome to the New Club Backdrop Untold Stories in Golf. I'm your host, Matt Considine. Here, without the professor one last week, he had some fire, some executive meetings, I assume it's just because Georgia football isn't in the state. They expect it so they get all the brilliant minds in Athens together to figure this thing out and step it up. Well, with that absence, I had to make sure we stepped it up here on the backdrop. Very...
special show. Obviously it's Rider Cup week. We're all, if you do put the clubs away this time of year, I'm guessing you're fired up to get them back out of the closet because the Rider Cups on your TV. It's the time that, I mean, we love this thing. Every two years, it's very addictive, very easy to geek out and talk at length, which we will today on the pod because very special guest. We're welcoming back Kyle Porter, founder of Normal Sport.
Formally of CBS and the all-new normal sports show That you can also check out your podcast feeds. He's coming on the show and we're gonna talk about Ego versus humility. So the thing that I had to text Kyle and ask him to come on for this because There was a clip from the Walker Cup. Many of you saw it. It made its way around the internet It was Bryson DeChambeau talking about bringing your ego his advice from
which I do think was actually be yourself was the advice, but maybe interpret as bring your ego, but it's really the idea of ego versus humility and how that plays out in both golf, but specifically team golf and team match play and the Ryder Cup. So nobody more thoughtful in the game than Kyle Porter, which is the perfect guest for this week. So I don't have a fun fact to fill the professor's
Window here. It's his turf. I like to stay off it anyways when he's not with us, but Quick anecdote someone we both went to college the professor and I went to college with our friend Amanda she it turned her husband on to the podcast and I ran into her recently. She told me that she doesn't Listen to the show but she does tune in and where her husband's listening to the first couple minutes because she likes getting the professor's fun fact, so
Matt Considine (02:27.94)
Amanda, thank you for that. You introduced me to a new word in that conversation we had, and she is a teacher, I should say, but that is pedagogy. Pedagogy, I didn't know what that meant. She said, I look for the professor's pedagogy. It is the art, the science, and the profession of teaching. Her as a teacher, she loves to listen to the professor teach me on the start of our Bag Drop podcast.
We might rename the fact of the week to professors pedagogy if he approves, we're going to skip it. We're not going to have one this week. I do want to welcome as part of new club, some new members to the fold. Jamal Owens, Matt Collier, Zachary Broom, Todd Sheldon, Lucas Payne, Tucker Eagleson. Welcome to new club golf society. What a awesome time of year. It's fall golf.
There's a ton cooking in the mobile app. Everybody's out playing the game. The ball just, it's bouncy, it's humming, the leaves are starting to fall. I love this part of the year, but welcome to the club. If you're a member, listen and make sure you get those guys out to go enjoy a game. And the the backdrop podcast is in partnership with Titleist and the new Pro V1 and Pro V1X. You can check out their new series of the alignment.
I talked to somebody who went through the fitting process for a ball recently and I didn't think about it until they told me You need to get fit for a ball. So now because of the alignment, are you a line guy? Are you not a line guy? It's like an eye test apparently so get fit for your ball. Make sure you're playing the right version of the title is Pro V1 or Pro V1 X and Thanks to our friends at Titles without further ado. Let's get on to the show Kyle Porter, welcome back
to the backdrop.
Kyle Porter (04:23.928)
Yeah, absolutely. Matt, I, I'm, I'm glad to come back on. It's my favorite topic to talk about. I could talk for three hours about it. Unfortunately, I don't don't, we don't have that much time, but, yeah, pumped to pump to get into it.
Matt Considine (04:37.196)
Before we do I just got to give you congrats on the new show man. Welcome to the podcast hosting producer world We were all looking forward to you getting in the mix and and I thought you made a huge splash I only at the time that we're talking you released your first episode. I know you got a couple more in the hopper Really high bar man making the rest of us look bad. I truly think it was an awesome start. So how's it feel?
Kyle Porter (04:48.174)
you
Kyle Porter (05:05.548)
Yeah, I appreciate that. there's this line that, that Neil from no line up used whenever, Shane Ryan wrote about
Strapped their the NLU show it for Golf Digest Shane Ryan wrote this amazing piece just about strapped and how much he loved it and everything and and Neil said something like I think Shane understands strapped better than than I do and that is how I feel About you as it relates to my show. I think you might understand what I'm trying to do with my show better than I actually do It feels
Matt Considine (05:41.276)
Well, I'll-
Kyle Porter (05:42.976)
It feels good. I think I've been a guest on or I've been like a participant in so many podcasts for so long that it feels weird to be the host and I'm not totally sure. I guess like what I'm doing or what I'm supposed to do or whatever. I did have an encouraging conversation with a friend this morning who's not in the golf world and he just said.
you're kind of a podcast host in real life. He's like, you ask questions, you bring people in, you have good conversation, and that made me feel encouraged that I can actually maybe go and do this and hopefully have some success at it. So I'm excited about it. been, actually I think more fun than I maybe thought it would be.
Matt Considine (06:25.66)
Yeah, well, I'll share this. What I told you after the first episode was that I thought it was the perfect start for what I know you want normal sport to be about. here's why. I think one of your superpowers is thoughtfulness. when I, I had a really busy summer and I wasn't really able to tune into golf, professional golf, the way that I typically am able or want to.
And so when I, when that happens, I have, and I have this in like every vertical and I look at my podcast feed and it's kind of what this is where it's, if I'm not tuned in, well, who is and who is going to be, I'll have the confidence that they're really thoughtful about what's going on, you know, not just quick takes, which are fun. And that's part of it, but that they've taken the time to reflect, to, to think I, I have always seen that as
one of your superpowers and a lot of that is good questioning, right? And being a podcast host in everyday life. So I do think you're perfect for that. But I thought it was the perfect start because I'm like, well, of course that person is going to have a first episode about how do you do this? How do you actually have a great show? So I don't know if you kicked around that a lot of what, what, you know, the first show should be, but I just, I commend you, man. It was the perfect start.
Kyle Porter (07:43.768)
Yeah.
Kyle Porter (07:52.472)
Thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, think the older we all get, it's like curiosity and humility are really good. Like you just see them as character qualities where you're like, man, I really want to be like that. And so.
I think that I've, like my whole career has been just like basically me asking myself questions and then trying to answer them through my writing or through my thinking or whatever. And I tried to, you know, display like at least a little bit of humility of like, hey, I haven't really done this as a host. So like, who can I go to that?
has been really good at it. so DJ Pajowski, Bob Sturm, Joe Musso, Brennan Porath, they've all had a ton of success in their kind of specific areas. And yeah, I feel like I just learned a lot. I'm yeah, it was like a good, probably very me start to to the show. And I'm excited about where it's gonna go.
Matt Considine (08:51.6)
All right, well, look forward to meeting more. And today's show, I wanted to get to this ego versus humility because, you know, I tend to get really deep on my own golf. I think your quote is always, I use golf to write about life. My experience with this game has always been, I have to learn things in golf to apply to my life. So this was coming from the
Kyle Porter (08:58.702)
Mm.
Kyle Porter (09:15.032)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (09:21.158)
What bryson said walking around the rider cup, which is a weird video to begin with of him being there and i'm, sorry the walker cup. Thank you out at cypress point But then I have this kicking around in my head. I see your tweets Where you put it side by side with john roms quote about essentially leaving ego At the door. So one guy saying bring your ego with you the other saying leave your ego at the door and
Kyle Porter (09:27.468)
At the, at the Walker coat. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Considine (09:51.046)
I think it's, how did I put it? The one is, you know, be who you are. The other is like, forget who you are. So, it's such a powerful thing when you think about the culture of these two Ryder Cup teams. So let's get to it. You know, what do you think is the single sentence or try to sum up what is ego and humility as it relates to team golf, let's say.
Kyle Porter (09:58.368)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kyle Porter (10:18.71)
Yeah, I think that, gosh, I think that the American side views the Ryder Cup and the President's Cup as an individual event played by a team. No, excuse me. I think the American side views it as a team event played by individuals. And I think the European side sees it as an individual event, or as individual matches played by a team.
And those are very different viewpoints. And this was crystallized for me in 2023, actually, I was in Rome and it was crazy. And obviously the euros basically won that writer cup on the first day. I mean, it was, they just routed the Americans and the Americans had no energy, no juice. And I remember Max Homa went on the no I know podcast, probably a week or two after.
Maybe not even that long, maybe a couple of days after. And he said that that was a, like the U S team was really close. They were really tight knit, which I don't doubt. Like, I think that's a real thing. But then he said something about Zach Johnson, who was the captain that has stayed with me. And he said, you know, he, he just reminded us like, Hey, you're one of the best players in the world. And, and, and he went to each player individually and said, remember who you are. Remember how good you are. And.
I juxtaposed out with, I'll never forget this Rom quote in the, and this is where I pulled this from. This was in the press conference on Sunday night after the Euros had won. And he said, and Rory and Rose had kind of set the table for him and talked about like the culture and the team. And Rose had talked about like what it means to carry on the legacy of like the guys that have come before him, which has never really been an American viewpoint of the writer cup of this team event. And Rom said, we make it a point to forget
who we were for the sake of the team. It's the ability to walk through those doors and forget about who you are outside of this week. What you have done or what you may do afterwards really truly doesn't matter. And that is one, it's incredible. Two, it's very difficult to envision an American saying that for that sentence or that paragraph. And I think that the Americans just
Kyle Porter (12:37.674)
And maybe rightly so, they just view, I'd actually love your opinion, because I have not, I didn't play golf, I didn't play competitive golf. They view the Ryder Cup as like, hey, it's still, you're an individual out there playing the shots and hitting the, you know, like you're playing with a teammate, but it's still individual shots. And the Euros do not view it like that at all. They view it almost like a basketball game or a football game where it's like a team event.
And I think that matters. Like I, just, we have a lot of evidence that, know, the euros of one, what is it? Eight of 11, I think we have a lot of evidence that that resonates and it matters. And there's a million different directions we could go with that, but that's sort of.
you know, I didn't even get to Bryson, but Bryson's essentially echoing what Max Homa said, which is like, Hey, remember who you are. Remember how good you are. Remember that you want to us opens. Remember whatever it is. And it's like, man, the euros don't do that at all. And I think they are probably better for it as a, as a complete team that week.
Matt Considine (13:40.934)
Yeah, golf requires confidence. We all know that and you aren't going to be very good at this game if you don't believe in yourself. So it's their self belief. Yeah. Ego is, a word that in a positive way can mean that obviously has a lot of negative connotations of putting yourself above others and, and whatnot. But, I think what I've heard Keegan say,
is be who you are in more of the public forum. He's not, I haven't heard him say ego, right? I mean, that might've been a, I might be projecting what Bryson says on the whole team, but the be who you are thing, I almost feel like it might be a, misdiagnosis of the problem. Like we might say, man, our guys are, are nervous and a little doubtful. Like I, you know, pick up on that. It's gotta be a confidence issue.
Kyle Porter (14:12.174)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle Porter (14:16.75)
Mm-hmm
Matt Considine (14:39.56)
We gotta get these guys believing again that they are the, you know, they are it. But maybe it's a humility issue. And that's where my head took me to ego versus humility. Maybe it is what you're saying, which is the cultural difference of this is a team playing a match versus the individuals playing a team sport. And so that's where I kind of go is that...
Kyle Porter (15:01.4)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (15:08.034)
that maybe we've missed it. And the culture is strong. think people talk about it in terms of these teams, but there is anyone who's spent time in Europe versus the United States, there's a collectivism versus an individualism. That is definitely, you can feel that in a lot of parts of their society. But where it comes to golf, you have to look no further than the clubs that these guys grew up in, where they learned the game, maybe they got good enough where
They were allowed to be a junior member and what else they play foursomes pretty regularly. And when you do that from a young age, you instantly start to make the priority about the match. and then, you know, it's not just as plain match play. they, they just do that. And, and you're so right. mean, here's a visual I'll give you from, I think the last three Ryder cups.
Kyle Porter (15:41.644)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (16:04.124)
When they stand on the tee for those Friday morning foursomes matches, what physical position are the Americans in versus the Europeans? It's stark. It's stunning.
Kyle Porter (16:05.846)
Mm. Yeah.
Kyle Porter (16:12.714)
It's stunning. Yeah, and there's a great, think Porat tweeted it out. There's a great shot of, in Rome, 2023, was Hatton and Rom, and they're basically hugging, and can't lay in Xander, and they just look like they would rather be literally anywhere else in the world at that moment. And I think there's also, Matt, I think there's a...
Matt Considine (16:34.172)
So funny.
Kyle Porter (16:39.79)
there's a problem here because I think in a lot of ways, what, I don't necessarily know that this idea that the Americans take on is the worst thing in the world. I don't prefer it. I prefer the Euro way of like, hey, let's have humility. Let's forget about who we are for the sake of the team. I think it puts less,
pressure on you to, you know, we've seen the Americans like, there's, there's just so much pressure and they just like, can't even like, do anything. Like they can't, they can't be themselves because there's so much pressure on the individual. And the Euros seem to like, have so much freedom that week. You know, like there's so much freedom when it comes to like, hey, I've got, yeah, I need to play well, but I've got 11 guys that are with me. And
So I prefer that, but also I think like the American way has sort of worked at home. And I think in a lot of ways that's because they don't need. They get their own energy at home from the crowd, right? And so much of this event is played on.
Matt Considine (17:39.751)
Yes.
Kyle Porter (17:52.226)
these tremendous waves of emotion. Like that's sort of the whole like Ryder Cup thing of like, you ride this wave? And they get it at home from the crowd. And so they're like, well, maybe the answer is ego. Maybe we do need to just be more of our, like be great as individuals. And then you take that on the road and it completely falls apart because you don't.
you don't have those waves that are provided by the crowd. goes the other way. And you're like, you'd almost feel like you're an individual fighting against 50,000 people. And that just doesn't, it doesn't work. And so I think there's this weird home and road thing that I think really messes with, with, with their minds a little bit. It's interesting that you brought up the, like the way that the Europeans grew up. was thinking about this with
Matt Considine (18:23.855)
Right.
Kyle Porter (18:41.558)
tennis, was watching the us open recently and I got to thinking like, are there not any Americans in the top 15? And I actually wrote about this for, for normal sport. It'll publish by the time this comes out. There's Taylor Fritz, there's Ben Shelton and.
there's somebody else, maybe I can't, there's somebody else in the top 15. There's three Americans in the top 15. You look at the top 15 in golf. If you just look at data golf, it's eight Americans in the top 15. So basically half of the top 15 is Americans. And somebody, I put this question out on, Twitter and somebody wrote back who was a tennis player and said, Hey, the reason for this is because the.
Americans are taught like one way of playing. It's serve as hard as you can and try to rip winners. And when you get out and play on
different, surfaces and you, you become a pro. Like that doesn't work as well. And the euros, they're, they, a lot of times they grow up on clay and they learn how to build points and they learn how to build a match and all this stuff. And I thought that was fascinating because it really relates a little bit to what you're saying about the writer cup of like, Hey, the Europeans grew up like just playing this way and the Americans did not. And I think that plays in as well. My favorite thing about the writer cup map.
Matt Considine (20:05.725)
Yeah.
Kyle Porter (20:06.062)
is that it's so short that you could diagnose any issue and it could kind of be right. And maybe not completely, you can't ever like, there's no burden of proof. Like you never have to, you never have to like, there's not enough data to like prove anything. And so there's all these little things where you're like, I think it might be this or like these 27 things. And like, they all might be a little bit right.
Matt Considine (20:13.224)
Yeah, you don't have to.
Matt Considine (20:30.888)
Gosh, that is, that's spot on. mean, the, I can say whatever I want. You're right. Cause it's not going to be reviewed at any time. But the, the thing I go to with it, you know who I would love to ask this question, Greg Popovich. So your tennis comp took me to where I was last night thinking about this, this cultural difference in these two teams.
Kyle Porter (20:50.414)
Mm.
Kyle Porter (20:58.595)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (20:59.912)
2014, I did look up what was that team because I remember them winning that championship and doing it with a bunch of foreigners. It wasn't Americans on his squad. So it was guys like, well, Tim Duncan, obviously, but then you had Tony Parker, Manu Janobili, Danny Green and Patty Mills and Boris Diao. And his quotes, there's a bunch of them from that time, but no one is bigger than the team.
Kyle Porter (21:18.7)
Was a Patty Mills.
Okay.
Matt Considine (21:29.094)
You know, that's what his message was. And he had this kind of decentralized offense, if you remember, where it was, they called it the beautiful game. was making soccer comps, because he knew that's how he had to talk about it to get through to his French guys to play this up pace, beautiful tempo where the ball, you know, moved in from inside out. And I kind of, I mean, I know we're talking golf and there's, you don't have to physically pass the ball. I guess foursomes is a pass in a way.
But there is definitely something to that where humility is the answer. It helps if you let Tim Duncan know, hey, your stat lines aren't gonna look the same this year. That's not the role you're gonna play. You know, gotta do what's right for the betterment of the team. That works. That works in any team sport.
Kyle Porter (22:21.294)
I'm curious. I'd love to ask you like what has been your experience of like, because again, I'm viewing all of this from as an outsider. I never played competitive golf, but do team events like this? Do they feel like a team? Cause you've played other sports. Do they feel like a team sport? I played baseball. Yeah. So it's a little bit the same, right? Where it's like,
Matt Considine (22:40.865)
What was your sport by the way? can't remember. You were a baseball player. That's right.
Kyle Porter (22:48.086)
you're part of a team, but you also, it's very into like the pitcher is very individual. The batter is very indi. So it's like this weird, it's a team made of individual battles. And, so golf is, is, but, but, but to me, baseball always felt like,
whatever the team's aura or ethos or attitude was, like really affected you and affected how you played. Like I've been on teams that had, where that was awful. And I've been on teams where that was like elite, like it was great. Like the energy was incredible and it affected how I played. And I'm curious if that was your experience in golf.
Matt Considine (23:24.912)
Yeah, you are a podcast host. Look at that. You're always flipping questions back. I I so I qualified for us four ball And my partner who's a guy i've known a long time by the name of putter johnson Yes, sir big big golf dad, no, that was a nickname since birth so lance, didn't stick in putter so putt and I
Kyle Porter (23:41.538)
His name's Putter.
Kyle Porter (23:49.046)
Okay, amazing.
Matt Considine (23:54.14)
Go way back, but you know what made us a great four ball team? And we've talked about this openly with each other and friends. We hate losing to each other. Hate it. know, cause growing up, everyone would talk about us as who's better? Who's the better golfer? You know, and like we were the two better golfers of a group of buddies. So him and I got all the way to the U.S. four ball and then fell apart. But I think there is something to ego.
in four ball that really helps. And if you get paired up with somebody, I think about Zander and Cantley's relationship for some reason in this way. It's like, you're not going to outdo me, man. And back to my own experience, we actually would give each other, we put some financial incentive behind it. First birdie in the hole gets 20 bucks from the other guy. So you could have hit it to five feet if I'm your partner and I hit it to 15, but my putt goes in first.
Kyle Porter (24:25.038)
Yeah.
Kyle Porter (24:34.616)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (24:52.936)
You owe me 20 and that spurred us to, you know, 62 in the qualifier. It was the competition between a team works, I think, in four ball. The individual works in the four ball. Foursomes, no chance. And here's my contrast of my own personal experience. Me and my brother did win a alternate shot event together, not a regional Northeast Ohio deal called the Jumble. And him and I were talking.
Kyle Porter (24:56.428)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (25:22.682)
a couple weeks ago, I talked about this on our last episode, but the Mola Nari video on the Ryder Cub YouTube channel of those two brothers being able to play together and someone you grew up playing every day with, my brother's eight years older, but he taught me how to play the game. Reflecting on us winning that thing and made us such a good team, it was, I know him so well, he knows me so well that we just,
You know what's happening before it happens. know, you're with, it's that team mentality and it's back to our analogies of like in basketball, the way that fluidity works because of familiarity and bond that, you know, two brothers have it at a very high level, but two guys that are playing in the Ryder Cubs, I think they truly need it for foursomes. There is something where ego's gonna work against you really fast.
Kyle Porter (26:15.181)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (26:20.604)
The other thing I remember in teaming up with other people, because as Americans, we don't get to play alternate shot, which I think is one of the tragedies of amateur golf. But you have to put yourself out there to hurt and be hurt, to put your partner in bad spots and have them put you in bad spots. And I think what that takes is again, the humility, because let's think about the tiger effect or let's say the Scottie Scheffler effect.
Kyle Porter (26:39.948)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (26:49.82)
When you're playing with the best golfer in the world, man, is there a bar of like, well, that's the number one player in the world. I can't put him in a bunker. can't. And then if you're the number one player, I am the number one player. I can't put them in this poor position or whatever, instead of playing with that freedom that you talk about. So one thing I find beautiful about the Ryder Cup is those two formats are so different. From a guy that's played in both of them, that's what I think about.
Kyle Porter (26:58.904)
Yeah.
Kyle Porter (27:14.498)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (27:18.106)
is I do believe ego can be a benefit in one and it can be a detriment in the other and humility is probably the same.
Kyle Porter (27:25.314)
Yeah, that's really fascinating. there was a quote, actually recently, there was some good reporting and writing that came out of Napa. So by the time this drops, that will have been like 10 days ago. But Brody Miller of the Athletic, Paulo Ugeti of ESPN.com, and Brody specifically was talking about, there was a Gary Woodland quote about how,
like, hey, when things hit the fan, like you have to trust each other. And I think to the American's credit and to Keegan's credit, again, I don't necessarily agree with all the, believe you're the best player in the world. just don't, I think that works in individual events. I don't know that it works great in team events. But I think to the American's credit, like they have looked at the European culture as it relates to the Ryder Cup
and said, gosh, we need more of that. And I think that's, I think it takes some humility to say that of like, hey, they're doing things well and we need to be better at it. Like that's a.
That's a cool thing and I think it's a thing that Keegan is pretty adamant about. clearly it has trickled down to his vice captains, whether it's Woodland or Webb Simpson or Branson Etiker. I think the other part that stands out to me about this conversation, and I thought about this as you were talking, is...
You kind of have like, you don't, when I say humility, I mean, as it relates to the team, you can't be just like a deferential person throughout the entire event, right? And we've seen this with Rory where, or Rom, and I think those guys are very, to be clear, like those are very unique humans. Like Rory and Rom are very unique human beings in that they can kind of live in both places in ways that it's very difficult as a human to do where.
Kyle Porter (29:25.74)
people are looking around like, don't, what do we do right now? And Rory's like, give me the ball, right? We saw this with the reference that I always make is Kobe at the 2008 Olympics. They were playing Spain in the finals.
Matt Considine (29:32.806)
Yeah.
Kyle Porter (29:40.15)
And you've got LeBron, you've got all these guys that are like, we don't know what the hell to do right now. And Kobe's like, me the ball. And he ends it. And so it's this difficult tension of like, have to have both. You have to have the humility of like,
forgetting who you are for the week and being a team. But then also like when the chips are down and things are going badly, you have to have somebody or two people or three people say, I'll take it right now. Put it on my back. And I think that's a, that takes some very special leadership and some very special people to do that. think JT is like learning to live in both of those places. I'm curious to see if Scotty does. I think he's got both of them. I don't know if he
has exercised them both at the same time. So I don't know, this stuff fascinates me, because I think it reveals a lot about these guys as people, not only as golfers, but as people in ways that individual events, even at major championships sometimes do not.
Matt Considine (30:42.376)
glad you brought it back to Keegan and the work he's done so far, because I think this discussion of ego and humility, it's not as simple as four sums and four ball and like, one works with ego, one is humility. Because if that's the case, then get rid of a captain, just put your ego guys on the one side and you know, but you're so spot on to say like,
Kyle Porter (30:58.795)
No, no.
Kyle Porter (31:06.071)
You
Matt Considine (31:10.812)
man, this is a big part of why this is maybe the most human golf event where the emotions are such a huge part of it. The fan, massive crowds and fighting for your country, like all that makes it so heightened. And so the balance between those two, the pull and the push, that's why a captain actually has a ton of influence in my opinion and understanding
Kyle Porter (31:15.331)
Mm-hmm
Kyle Porter (31:35.83)
Mm-hmm, totally.
Matt Considine (31:39.058)
who your guys are from a psychological standpoint so that you can help them be as successful as possible with that encouragement. I think about the positive side of ego and Ben Crenshaw in 99. I mean, is there ever a better example than sitting in the press conference and saying, I got a feeling about this. What is that? I mean, talk about ego, talk about confidence. The biggest upset at the time,
Kyle Porter (31:58.862)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Considine (32:06.37)
And likewise, I think about 2012 at Medina, I was there on the first tee when Rory came running out of the cop car. There was an ego in his eyes. I mean, you could see it like, yeah, sorry I'm late coach, but I'm good. Like, don't worry, I got you. Give me the ball. We got one point on the board. And I'm like, whoa, he like, he looked kind of like he was partying last night before. But I do think that.
Kyle Porter (32:17.004)
Hahaha.
Kyle Porter (32:21.73)
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Considine (32:32.052)
He has that as well, so it's not a European versus American thing all the time, but I think it's definitely a balance of these two things and how they ebb and flow that makes for really good Ryder Cup week.
Kyle Porter (32:43.99)
Well, and I think the thing that stood out to me, was at Keegan's press conference when he named his captain's picks. It was in Frisco. And the thing that really stood out to me, Matt, was, and I do wonder if we'll look back on this moment as like a bit of a, I think, I don't know, I'm not confident that we will, but I think we could look back on this as an inflection point for the United States organization for the Ryder Cup of like, Keegan easily could have picked himself.
It would have been incredibly defensible to pick himself over Ben Griffin or cam young or Sam Burns and be like, Hey, this, want, like, I want it all. I want the whole thing. want to win the writer cup as a captain and I want to play in it. Cause I haven't done so since what? 2014, I think.
And he didn't, and it was an act of humility. And that in and of itself has set the table for a more galvanized US side than we've seen maybe ever. And I know that sounds like maybe stupid and like,
you know, like ethereal, like not a real thing. But man, I think it's like those guys see and I asked JT this, like they see how much Keegan wants to play in the writer cup.
And he set that aside. He could have chosen himself like that. Like the thing that people like me were forgetting when we said, he shouldn't choose himself. Like, yeah, of course. But like there's human emotions caught up in the fact that like I desperate to play in a writer cup. I like the competitive side of him had to have wanted to play in this and he was playing well enough. He is playing well enough to have justified that decision. And he didn't.
Kyle Porter (34:31.138)
And I kind of asked him afterwards, we have this little scrum on the side and I asked him a little bit about that and why he as an introvert has been so honest and extroverted toward his players. And he said, he said something to the effect of there's nothing I wouldn't do to, put our team in a position to win the writer.
And I was like, man, that is so good. It's so there's such a humility there from him, even though he's clearly like, yeah, I mean, we've seen the clip from full swing, like he wants to go like kill the European team, but
I I've just been so impressed by him and, and I've already declared him like, think he should be the captain in Ireland, even though he hasn't captained a single match in the U S I think he's got some juice and some energy that the U S needs on the road a little bit. And, I've been incredibly impressed by just the way he's carried himself so far.
Matt Considine (35:28.232)
Yeah, I have a lofty take since honestly, didn't, your coverage of that presser led me to this take and I want your reaction to it. It's very lofty and kind of ridiculous. But if you think about Seve and all the great man Seve and all the documentaries on Seve and all the, you know, tears in our eyes when we talk about Seve, there was that inflection point in 1987.
Kyle Porter (35:44.908)
Mm.
Matt Considine (35:57.114)
that or sorry 85 to 87 where everyone's down. Okay, we lost again to the Americans. This is what happens and he's pounding the table, right? And he's going we got him. We got him. We're gonna get him next. so that was the turning point for them and and the guy just cared more about everything but where I go with the the humility side and the quotes from Justin Rose and these guys and this culture they got a locker for Seve. There's nobody and and I think I'm accurate on that. I don't want to
degrade the past of these US guys that cared, the Zingers and the Watkins and those guys. But we kind of missed our moment, I think, with some of those guys, because you need an archetype that sets the standard and a role model of what it means to care about this thing, what it means to get ready for this thing, what it means to, and his sincerity is what I'm picking up on. And I'm almost like, wait a second, is this the inflection point that Europe had?
Kyle Porter (36:43.278)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (36:54.824)
I think time will only tell on that, but that's just hypothetical. Keegan gets it done. They blow him out at Bethpage. He did it in this way that unified a team with that humility, with that self-sacrifice. And then he goes and actually, I think you're right. He should be captain over there. I think he'll make it for some reason in this story, in this version of the story. He's gonna make it as a player and he's actually gonna play.
then you have your archetype, then you have your cult hero of what it means to be a team for the Ryder Cup, to be a US team for the Ryder Cup. And we just don't have that. And so there you go. In like 20 years, they're gonna have a banner of Keegan Bradley that drapes down Bethpage Black in the stands on the first tee. I'm not saying that, I just think we need something like that, a spark like that on the US side to get this culture, you know.
Kyle Porter (37:24.898)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (37:49.786)
Institutional culture, Greg Popovich would talk about that. Institutional culture, that's what I think we're missing. I just don't buy that ego or humility is a part of that. It's just a part of how it ebbs and flows between it.
Kyle Porter (38:07.47)
The through line there for me is Tiger. Tiger never, Tiger is Tiger and like changed, he changed like our lives in ways that are ridiculous. Like I probably wouldn't have this job if not for Tiger making golf like a commercially viable entity that golf, you know, like.
there's not as many American tennis media as there is American golf media because of Tiger. That's crazy. So I don't, I'm not disparaging Tiger, but he never, he never was vulnerable enough to care about, and Phil also, I think this is true of him, they never, they never like were, and they're of a generation that's like 10 or 15 years ahead of you and I.
they never were vulnerable enough to really care about or to show that they cared. I don't think they didn't care. That's not what I'm saying. But to be able to galvanize a team, you have to show it. And I don't know that Tiger ever did. That's just not who he is, not who he was.
when he was playing in these things. And I think it was really interesting. I was talking to somebody who's pretty high up at the PGA of America. And this was after the Keegan press conference. And this person said like, this is not like a secret. It's pretty public that they wanted Tiger to be the captain for Bethpage. And he said, you know, I didn't realize how
I was so bummed after we didn't get him, but I didn't realize how wrong I would be about, not about Tiger, he wasn't saying anything about Tiger, but just about how good Keegan's been. Because I think Keegan would say, hey, I was the backup plan for Tiger. Again, that's no big secret, but.
Kyle Porter (40:04.726)
I think the attitude around what he's brought to the table, even behind the scenes for people that that have more access to him and to this whole situation than you and I do has been like, man, this is pretty special. And the thing that I was thinking about is somebody who cares maybe more than any player over the last 20 years about his legacy being tied to the writer cup. What better legacy is there than being a cap, the first captain that goes on the road and wins in Europe.
in the last 35 or whatever it is, 30 years. That would be, so I think Keegan, he's got a real opportunity here. And again, I'm already making him the captain at a dare manner. And we haven't even, there's hadn't been a ball hit at Bethpage. So this could all go really badly by the time you listen to this podcast. But I don't know, those are just some of the thoughts I've had around what you're talking about as it relates to Keegan being the captain.
Matt Considine (40:42.214)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (40:53.223)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (41:01.276)
You know, and I know we got a wrap. can't talk. We've got plenty of other Ryder Cup work to do here, Kyle. So just one the, you for joining us. But the, where that takes me is I do wonder in competitive golf and individual sport, how, how ego just protects you so much throughout the course of a difficult major year, a difficult PGA season. Like what is the sacrifice to get to that point of.
carrying that much to having this focal point on the Ryder Cup as so many Europeans have in the past. Like, what do you sacrifice is what I asked myself. And I almost feel I would be really interested to hear if Scottie Scheffler's talked to Tiger about what that, his approach to the Ryder Cups. Because obviously, know, Tiger, Barry Ho-Hum, record, nothing to write home about, the best players.
in the world didn't always have the best Ryder Cubs, but I wonder if there was this acknowledgement from Tiger that maybe Scottie could give us insight to of like, Hey, just remember, you know, you're what you grew up wanting to be and keep your eye on the prize is world number one, winning the most big events. And that's an individual pursuit and that takes 365 day commitment and
you know, making the Ryder Cup half of your year. I mean, you know, some of these things we hear about what these guys are doing so far in advance, thinking about the Ryder Cup. I'm guessing there is a little trade off there. I don't know if entirely because it's both the game of golf and getting really good at it. But I do wonder if that's a thing that just some Americans growing up differently, like they're just not going to be willing to do that. They're not going to be willing to make a sacrifice for that team because it could be at odds with their individual goals.
Kyle Porter (42:54.446)
I think it, yeah, I mean, I agree with you, but I almost feel like it takes more of an emotional toll than a time toll. I think about the Rory quote at the Masters this year. said, he was asked about, at the players this year, he said, I had a spell where I didn't want to be heartbroken. And then he was asked about this at the Masters and he said, I think it's a self-preservation mechanism.
It happens in all walks of life. At a certain point in someone's life, someone doesn't want to fall in love because they don't want to get their heart broken. I think instinctually as human beings, we hold back sometimes because of the fear of getting hurt, whether that's a conscious decision or subconscious decision. And I think I was doing that on the golf course a little bit for a few years. But I think once you go through that, once you go through those heartbreaks or disappointments, you get to a place where you remember how it feels and you wake up the next day and you're like, yeah, life goes on. It's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. And I think that, I think that
Again, this was maybe generational, it's maybe cultural, it's probably some of both, where you had the American group that was, again, 10, 15 years ahead of our age, me and you, that didn't really understand vulnerability and didn't, maybe didn't even know how to put their heart out there and have it broken. And I do think that,
this generation. look at JT as like a paradigm for this. I think JT understands. JT is not like, you know, I think people, he's very polarizing. They love him or hate him or he can be annoying. He can be heroic. He can be a lot of things. But I think he is not afraid to care and show that he cares. And I think that's been.
not, I think that's been unusual for American writer cuppers. And so I'm, I'm hopeful that, and I think Keegan's the same way. Like I, and that's why I'm so hopeful for Keegan's captaincy of like, Hey, this, this was like a forerunner to JT. Like I remember KVV talked about this. Hey Keegan cared about the writer cup at a time where it wasn't really that cool to care about the writer cup as an American.
Kyle Porter (45:03.63)
Like, yeah, I'll play in it and I'll try to be good or whatever. But it wasn't like, it wasn't lauded by you and I of like, Oh, look at this guy that cares about the writer cup. now are the people, and maybe it was by you and I, but not the people that were in our positions 15 years ago. And now it's like, it is lauded by you and I, it is cool to care about the writer cup. It's cool to be max. It's cool to be a JT and like really care.
And so yeah, I think that there is more of a, uh, institutional willingness to care about this thing that maybe was a little bit dismissed 15, 20, 25 years ago on the American side. And that's that, that has me hopeful for the next, you know, 10, 15, 20 years.
Matt Considine (45:47.718)
Yeah, yeah, I do too. I said this last week and I'll be honest and people have called me out on this. I'll probably be pulling for Europe. I just, I look at the lineups and I ask myself.
Kyle Porter (45:59.214)
You're telling me this now after 40 minutes 45 minutes?
Matt Considine (46:05.276)
Sorry, Kyle, I'm still a patriot, man. I'm an American, 4th of July, my house is fireworks and hot dogs, but I just look at people on a team and who I want to root for and they got more of them, I'm sorry. But here's, I could flip, I could flip. There's still time, you could flip me. But what was I gonna ask you? I had one last question for you related to it.
Kyle Porter (46:16.558)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (46:33.138)
Just with the theme, the theme of ego and humility, I want you to predict how humility, give me an example of how humility is gonna play out on the US side, and then maybe we'll do one for ego on the European side, going into Bethpage and what we might see.
Kyle Porter (46:49.644)
Yeah, that's well, I mean, I don't know that it's a, sort of already referenced it and it's not really a prediction, but I think Keegan has shown a tremendous amount of humility already. And I think that will, I think it already has infected this U.S. team. I truly, I do. I don't know that they totally understand that. I don't know that I totally understand it, but I think there's a different energy around the U.S. team just because of Keegan.
And his, again, he's, he's holding a couple of things in tension. Like he's got a ton of energy. He's got a ton of like. Fired up about the writer hub, but man, the act of like not picking yourself and it freaking like they didn't plan it like this and it worked out perfectly for them. Like they got.
this perfect scenario of, of what they needed, which was a little bit more humility and a little bit more Galvin Galvanization as a team. And Seth wall has to just be sitting there like, yeah, this is, this is how I thought it would go. Like, no, you didn't like nobody thought this is how it was going to go. So I don't know that that's necessarily a prediction, but I do think we will see a. Like a really, and not that the last few us teams haven't been galvanized, but I think there is a.
depth of galvanization and a depth of relational unity that you can't manufacture. can't make it artificial and say that it's there because like,
It has to be a, it has to be, it can't just be words. It has to be an act and Keegan did the act. And so there's something to like really root itself deeply in those guys. And I think that, I think, I think that will play out in interesting ways this week.
Matt Considine (48:36.424)
Well said, well said. And the thing I remember was gonna say, room for your butt, not gonna be surprised if it is a blowout for the US, but I don't think you can put it in the same kind of blowout terms as whistling straights. I think because of one, the quality of the European side and everything you said with Keegan, I feel like if it is a large margin of win, which we've seen in these home games, something feels like it's bit more of an achievement.
At a Keegan, a, just the variables, some of this stuff going on. I don't know. I just think that would be really impressive if that's what ends up happening. I don't think it will. I think we're going to be in for one hell of a Ryder Cup. You'll be there obviously at Beth Page. Tell us just before we let you go, what's that week like for you? Just caffeine and, or do you not need caffeine? Cause there's so much adrenaline coming from the fans.
Kyle Porter (49:05.976)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kyle Porter (49:25.806)
Mm.
Kyle Porter (49:32.706)
Yeah, it's some of the best, I mean the players say this and it's true of us idiots in the media also, but it's like some of the best weeks of your professional life. I think about 2016 at Hazel Teen, that was the first one I ever attended and I had been in golf for three or four years at that point and you kinda had made these.
You know, lot of people that got, or a lot of guys that people know from golf Twitter, like poor Ath and Sally and Tron and you know, all these DJ, all these different people, you kind of made internet friends and seeing them at majors, but that was like the week that our friendships and our relationships and our sort of group like crystallized. And it was, it was really special. it.
And again, like you're not part of the writer cup or I mean, you are part of the writer cup. You're not part of the team. Obviously you're not hitting the shots. You're not in the room, whatever, but it still feels emotionally special for everybody that's there, whether it's media or players or captains or even fans. Like it's just a really special week. Um, 2021 at whistling Straits was
Similar, they're also like markers of this passage in time, because they're only every four years. And so you're like, man, what was I doing four years ago? Wow, my life was different then, or whatever. So that's really interesting to kind of think back on as well. They're at a time of year that I love, which is September fading into October. It's kind of cool getting cold.
It's just, it's the best week. Like, I love the Masters, I love going to the US Open, I went to the Open at St. Andrews, those are all incredible experiences. But the Ryder Cup is, it's great, the thing that I've been saying recently, it's greater than the sum of its parts. It's a little bit inexplicable. There's some magic there, which again, people listening are probably like, this idiot, like he has no clue. And it's like, yeah, maybe I don't, but.
Matt Considine (51:37.202)
Not on this show, no way.
Kyle Porter (51:38.874)
I think there's a wonder to it that I just, I gravitate toward and it's really, yeah, it's just always such a special week and just a memorable one. Jason Page, who does all of our artwork, illustrations, he's gonna be there with me, so that'll be really fun. I mean, the mornings are insane. trying to get there, especially on Friday, or yeah, Friday, Saturday.
for the first tee shots at like seven. So you got to get there by six. So you have to leave by four, 40, whatever. So yeah, there's not a lot of sleep going on, but it's just, it's, they're super special weeks and I'm, very excited for that. I think it's going to be close. think we haven't had a close one since 2012. Unfortunately, that one was closer than we thought it would be.
But I just, I've never experienced in person, because I, in 2012, I wasn't working in golf. I was, had a job in, for an insurance and retirement company. And I remember we were painting our living room that weekend and watching that one on TV, but I've never experienced in person somebody having a putt to win the writer cup that was like,
If I miss this, we might not win the Ryder Cup. know, I've obviously seen putts to win the Ryder Cup, but it was like, yeah, we're gonna have 27 others if I miss this one. I wanna see Rory have a putt to win the Ryder Cup. And I wanna see what it does to him. I wanna see Scotty have a putt to win the Ryder Cup. And I wanna see what it does.
to somebody that's that good and I wanna see what his reaction is. I can't imagine what that would feel like for me and especially for them. But I crave having a really close Ryder Cup because I think again, it brings a lot out of you as a player and a person. So I'm very excited for that.
Matt Considine (53:29.116)
That's awesome. I, that's a piece you need to do is how many putts have there been for the rider cup and give a little deep dive on each of them. would tune in for that. it's funny. I'll comment just, just briefly on what you just said. I think for the rider cup for me and all majors are kind of this way is I start to get texts about what's happening in PJ cup from just friends. People.
Kyle Porter (53:53.708)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Considine (53:54.344)
know, talking golf with friends. think I saw that on your guys new blog for normal sport. that's really truly what I think the rider cup elevates because I, I talk more about it with any of my friends, that time of year. And that's what makes it special, especially for you, the journalists that are covering it. You guys get to see each other and celebrate. then, it's, it's obviously special for these players and then us, us as fans. It is, man, it's, it's here, here to the rider cup. Hopefully.
Kyle Porter (53:58.154)
Yep. Yep.
Kyle Porter (54:06.733)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (54:23.332)
It stays, it's, you know, beacon of what we enjoy. Kyle, I always enjoy having you on, man. Thanks for doing this today on short notice and, and cut it up before, you head into a very busy week.
Kyle Porter (54:37.132)
Yeah, truth be told, I just texted you this a couple of minutes ago, but I had a meeting and I was like, this is too much fun, I'm just gonna push my meeting and I'll get to it later. now, it's my pleasure. I love talking about this stuff. Talking to you is always, whether we're doing it with the camera on or not, it's always enlightening, it always makes me think differently about things and it's always a ton of fun also. So thank you for that, thanks for having me.
Matt Considine (54:46.876)
I know we've done that to you a couple times, but...
Matt Considine (55:07.196)
And thank you everybody out there for listening. This podcast emerged from New Club Golf Society. And just like I said about the Ryder Cup, think the thing I've been most passionate about in this game is the community around it. So send us a note, thebagdrop at newclub.golf. Professor made me change the name or change the email address. If you guys have any thoughts or questions and members of New Club can't thank you guys enough for being a part of
our little sliver of the golf world and welcome to those new members again. I'll say it one more time. Jamal Owens, Matt Collier, Zachary Broom, Todd Sheldon, Lucas Payne and Tucker Eagleson. Welcome to New Club, gentlemen. I'm looking forward to teeing it up with you guys this fall, this winter and into the spring. The New Club backdrop is in partnership with Titleist, the number one ball in golf. We'll catch you guys on the next one.
